HXR20YR RETROSPECTIVE: HXR014- ENGINEER, "Reproach"

Some people feel like this is the heaviest record ever released on this label.  I think that’s completely subjective.  But there’s no doubt that Engineer came out for their debut full length on a tear and pretty much leveled the central New York scene.  Vibrations were heard from their home up in the North country, all the way down to Syracuse, and beyond.  A lot of bands grow into a sound and develop along the way.  And while that is certainly true for Engineer, as they expanded their sound throughout their time as a band, it felt as if with this debut full length they came out fully formed.  Sure, they had an EP and a split to work off of before this came out.  But things moved fast for this band.  All those releases came very close together and “Reproach” was just this massive record that sounded so huge, so determined, and so intense, and it showed tenfold when they played live.

The idea was for Hex to release an LP right off the bat for them.  But instead things were eased into by doing the split with Achilles first, whom Engineer ended up doing a considerable amount of touring with as well.  And like Achilles and Ed Gein around the same time, Engineer found themselves down at Chris Owens’ studio in Louisville to record this record.  Keeping it strongly connected to others associated with the label Minor Times guitarist and graphic designer Tim Leo did the artwork for this release, based on ideas and direction from the band.

Once finished they did not hesitate to get on road, and brought their sonically devastating sound to anywhere that would have them.  Engineer truly excelled at a do it yourself mentality while around, which only increased as they went on.  Founded by brothers Ryan, Bob, and Brad Gorham, and rounded out by animalistic drummer Mike Auclair they remained very active while “Reproach” was coming out.

They went on to do two more records through Black Market Activities after this and more touring.  During that time vocalist Bob Gorham became much more involved with the artistic aspects of the group and began doing much of the band’s design work.  Bassist Brad Gorham took on a keen interest in recording and began logging studio time to learn the in’s and out’s of audio engineering, eventually landing a position at Syracuse institution Moresound Studio for awhile and doing live sound as well at a couple venues.  Guitarist Ryan Gorham developed skills in fixing guitars, amps, cabinets, as well as learning the process of building them.  Once the band slowed down the three brothers found themselves becoming partners in opening up their store- Gorham Brothers Music- which specializes in selling gear, fixing gear, serving as the occasional venue for shows, and showcasing their in-store brand of guitar cabinets, Old Soul.  The three brothers also play together in Blood Sun Circle (who released their first LP through Hex, and have since released a second record- and hopefully soon, a third- through their own label Drops Of Us), an extension of Engineer in the loud and intense department, but in a different sort of way. They truly embody the spirit of taking their passions and becoming experts in controlling all aspects of them.  “Reproach” was an early example of that latent talent, and even then they sounded like masters of their craft.

I caught up with guitarist Ryan Gorham on a rare day off from the shop recently to discuss the time of Engineer around when “Reproach” was coming together to see what he remembered.

You all came from a very separate, but tight-knit, area north of Syracuse that was its own scene, but you guys were in Parrish, which was even more removed from places like Fulton and Oswego, where shows up there happened.  How did you find other like-minded people to play with, or share similar interests in music?

I think it was just because those outlying areas like Fulton, and even Mexico, New York at that time when I was getting out of high school and going into college, playing in bands with Mike Russell and Ted Niccoli (both later of No Idols), those small towns had little scenes and bands of their own.  I think it just happened to be a more far-reaching network back then that doesn’t really exist today.  Playing in some of those bands, and just getting started, obviously the most shows were in Syracuse, and the outside areas would get excited and make their own bands so we could travel and play Syracuse.  And that’s how we met other people.

Who among the brothers got into punk and hardcore music first and how did it spread to all of you?  It’s rare to have this many family members have a shared interest in the same kind of music and want to play together.

When we were growing up we all started playing guitar, well, me and Bobby playing guitar and Brad playing bass, literally at the same time.  We all got instruments for Christmas one year.  We all skateboarded and played guitar, and that was all there was to do in Parrish.  We just traveled to different towns and met some kids that way, and found out about different kinds of music.  We would travel down to Central Square and skateboard, or go to the Everson (Museum) and skate in Syracuse.  And I think skateboarding and music went together, like for me it was listening to the Deftones.  That was a big influence on me.  We got into other bands like Pennywise, and Brad was into some other kinds of bands, punk bands, and Bobby was too.  And Bobby was the oldest of us and we eventually went to college and would bring back different kinds of music.

But we all sort of got into it at the same time and it was all through skateboarding and playing guitar in general sort of fostered that.

We would also go see random shows in Syracuse and in outlying areas and just learn about bands that way.

I think one of the first shows I went to was at Westcott Community Center and that band Kill the Slavemaster played. (laughs)  I don’t know if you remember that band?  It was them and maybe If Hope Dies, and some other band.  I just remember seeing them and thinking ‘holy fuck, this band is fucking crazy!’

They were pretty much a straight up metal band.

Yeah, it was super dark metal.  The live performance was crazy and I remember the singer doing some wild shit.  He was almost naked by the end of the set.  It was weird, but, ya know, that was it.

But between that scene and meeting other kids that’s how it happened.  I remember auditioning for The Far and Away, which was Mike Russell (drummer of No Idols), Mike Morrisette, and Eric Smith, and practicing in their garage.  That’s how I met all those kids.  I don’t remember how that came about because they all lived in Mexico (NY) or something.  That’s how I got in with them.

But growing up, Bobby, Brad, and I all learned to play music at the same time.  But I never really envisioned playing in a band with them.  We had similar interests, but they were just different enough where we didn’t play the exact same music, and I could never picture being in a band with them.  So we all started separate bands at the time.  I was doing what I was doing, Brad went off to college and I think he had a band out there in Plattsburgh (northern NY).  And it didn’t all come together until Brad and Bobby were playing together with (Mike)Auclair (drummer, Engineer) in that band Forever Yours.

I didn’t realize Mike was in that band!

Yup.  He played drums and that’s how they met him up around the Oswego way.  And then the guitarist left for whatever reason, and they had a couple shows booked they still were committed to play, so they sat me down and showed me the songs, and I finished out the shows for them, and that’s how Engineer started.  We had never all played together until that point.

We just decided after that to start over as a new band and that’s how Engineer formed.

That was going to be my next question!  You all were involved in a few bands around he region that played within the area, but I didn’t realize that most of Engineer was in Forever Yours, and at the end, all of Engineer was Forever Yours.

I think that was the era where I was going to college in Oswego and Brad and Bobby and Auclair all lived in an apartment in Oswego, so I could just go over there and learn the songs.  And once I left college I just moved in there, and we all lived in the same apartment in Oswego.

I see.  And you played in Marrakesh too, right?

Yeah.  It was sort of an overlapping time where I was still in that band doing that.  There were a couple shows where both bands played together and I had to do two sets.  That’s not fun.

I think at that Majority Rule show you booked I played in both bands, and did both sets.

That was a fun show! 

Seeing that show was definitely was one of my favorite shows I ever remember seeing at the Westcott Community Center.

How did Engineer make some of their first connections with other bands outside of town that led to you to tour with them?

I did pretty much all the booking for the band, and the routing for the tours.  And I used this messageboard, I forget the name of it, and it doesn’t exist anymore, but it was a website that was just dedicated to DIY booking.

Was it Book Your Own Fucking Life?

No, that was one of them.  This was a different one.  It was basically just a list of states and cities, and contacts within those cities.  I would just blindly e-mail them.  I would blast out tons of e-mails to see what I could get back and who would book us.  And I would book tours that way.  I think between that and our first tour, which we did with Ed Gein, we just asked hometown friends who had toured before if they knew anybody in X, Y, or Z city and tried getting a hold of them.

There was a handful of bands that we knew that we would try to play with, like The Minor Times, when we would go down to Philly.  Or we would be covered in Rochester with Achilles.  But as far as playing out of state we would just blindly e-mail people and see what we could string together.

What held back bands you did before Engineer from touring and playing out more than you did?  Because once Engineer started you all just really went for it.

I think just between being pretty young and just getting the hang of how you even get booked for a show, or putting that stuff together.  None of us had the money to get a van to go on tour with, much less and responsibility to get one.

The first tour that Engineer did with Ed Gein we just put all our gear in their trailer, because they had one.  And we just drove in Bobby’s Honda Civic.  We slept in the Honda Civic for that whole tour and it wasn’t until after that when we said, ‘alright, we need to get a van and a trailer to put our gear in because we never want to tour in a car ever again.’ (laughs)

But I think we just went for it.  We had enough drive to want to make it happen.  So we just did what we needed to do to make it happen.  But we would just blindly show up to some of those cities and not know the promoter and have no idea of how the show was going to be, and sometimes it was good, but a lot of times it was terrible.  At least we could check it off our list of saying, ‘we’re going to come back here, but not play this place.’

I feel like between the first EP, the split, and then “Reproach” it was a pretty quick process.  What was writing and preparing for those releases like?

Yeah it did.  It was crazy!  It was pretty much non-stop.  All we pretty much did was live that band and practiced as much as we could, and pretty much not do anything else except write music non-stop.  We wrote as much as we could, and played a bunch of shows, and it felt like an era where our work and jobs were secondary, and all we wanted to do was write music and go on tour.  For awhile we were putting out a record every year.  There was the split with Achilles, and then we did a 7” on Mike Hill’s (Tombs) label Black Box with a band from Germany, and then “Reproach” came out right after that.  We just strung it all together and I felt like we were just on a roll of putting out a record every year.

Once “Reproach” came around you decided to record with Chris Owens in Louisville, which Achilles and Ed Gein also recorded at.  Why did you decide to go there and what was that experience like?

It was pretty crazy how quick it happened because I think we were there for only two days.  We slept in the studio because we only had two days to record, so we drove straight there, spent the night there, spent the whole next day recording, slept in the studio and then spent most of the next day probably doing vocals and mixing, and then drove straight back to Syracuse.  We did the whole record in two days.

Oh my god.  Why didn’t you give yourselves more time?

I don’t remember.  But I think that was either all we could afford to do, or maybe it was only time that was available.  It happened super fast.

I hope it didn’t have anything to do with a penny-pinching crappy record label!

(laughs)

Because I remember Chris Owens being pretty cheap back then!

(laughs)  I don’t remember why it had to happen so fast, but it did.  And it made it interesting at the same time.  But, ya know, all we did was practice back then, so going into the studio we were really well rehearsed, and knew everything we were going to do and tracked everything pretty much straight-forward.

I think one of the songs, “Shiner”, was written right before we went into the studio.  We were looking for what might be missing as far as song structure, and feel for the record, and we wrote that maybe a week or two before we went into the studio.  And I think the very last song on the record, at the end of the ninth track where it’s just some instrumental guitar.  Bobby had the idea for that one and I did some second guitar over the top of it the morning of the second day of recording.  We were just sitting on the studio floor just writing with two guitars and decided right there that we needed to record it and pt it on the record.

So taking two days was more just out of efficiency and proficiency.

Yeah, we had our shit down, and Chris knew what he was doing and could dial in everything really quick.  We just went for it.

Given that it was a really quick session do you look back on it with satisfaction, or do you hear things that you would want to change?

No, I think with every record we have done I look at it as it is, and when we record a record I look at it as more of snapshot of the time.  No matter how many days we have to record, or whatever the budget, or how it ends up coming out, to me it’s sort of like taking a picture.  Whatever was happening at that moment.  It is what it is and I try not to look back.  I’m happy with  how it sounds for sure because in that time Owens captured the rawness of the band at that era.  It’s not as clean or polished as some of the other records we did later.  But the band wasn’t like that I general.  In that era it was all raw and intense and I think the recording captures that feel.

When the record came out you guys toured quite a bit.  How far out did you go and who did you find yourself going on the road with? What were some of the highlights of those tours?

That’s an era where so many of those tours blend together.  I believe we went on tour with Achilles twice.  And I believe we went on tour with Tides in that era twice as well.  I think in the year after “Reproach” came out and before “The Dregs” (their second LP) came out we toured four times in that year.  I think one of them was an Achilles tour, then we did a Minor Times tour.  In 2007 we toured with Coliseum and we did 10 days in Canada and then back down into the US.  And I think that was the most successful tour we ever did.  Touring Canada was amazing.  There were some of the biggest crowds, and some of the best promoters.  Everyone was super nice and we actually made some money, for the first time ever, while on that tour.  Touring with Coliseum was obviously awesome, but just playing shows in Canada was great.

Getting that whole situation figured with getting across the border, and fanangling that was fun to do.

How did you fanangle that?  You guys had a lot of equipment so I’m curious.

(laughs)  I think we ended up saying we were all one band.  I don’t remember if we combined our names, or just used one of them, but I think we said we were all one band.  So one guy was the lighting guy, and the other was the sound engineer, or some shit like that.  And we put all our gear in one trailer and we had the roster list of everyone under one band.  The shows were all lined up legit so we had to present all the paperwork and the merch.  So we didn’t hide that we were bands, but we did it in a way where we said we were all one band.  For whatever reason that worked and it got us through.

So all the t-shirts saying ‘Engineer’ you could pass off as band crew shirts of actually being engineers for the band.

I can’t remember if we mailed merch to somewhere ahead of time so we didn’t have to bring it through, or just had it printed up there and pick it up once we were there.  A lot of bands did that around that time.  Afterwards, we would just leave it and have someone mail it back to you later on.

the infamous wall of cabs that went everywhere the band went

OK, so I also heard you all would bring a coffee maker on tour. Why and how did that go for you all? Because I know it's funny.

Yeah, we used to bring one of those cigarette lighter converters on tour so we could plug a coffee maker in. It's not that coffee wasn't available on the road, there just wasn't always good coffee available. So we used to get a pound or two from Recess (Coffee shop in Syracuse, co-owned by Jesse Daino from Ed Gein) before we left.

Wasn't there an issue once where it drained the van battery, or it caught on fire or something?

Yeah, I think we killed the battery using it before. And we used to blow the vans fuse all the time (laughs)

At this point Engineer became a little less associated with the northern region and more of a Syracuse group.  When did you find yourselves moving down here, or did you remain split up between Syracuse and the Oswego area?

I think I left college in 2003 to just do the band full time.  I think that was around when we did that Ed Gein tour.  I just decided to leave college to do the band.  We all had an apartment together in the Oswego area.  I think I lived there for about a year.  The band was getting more active and serious and I wanted everyone to move down to Syracuse and just do the same thing, except closer to the scene in Syracuse.  Not everybody was on board with that and I think I was the only one who actually moved to Syracuse.  Plus, I think at that point, we were practicing behind that post office in North Syracuse.

Oh yeah, great space.

My thought was we could live closer to the practice space because half of us were driving from Oswego and the other half were coming from Syracuse, or other outlying areas at that time.

But we never all moved to Syracuse.  I think Auclair stayed in Oswego the whole time pretty much.

Never left.  He’s a lifer.

(laughs)  We all kind of moved around a little bit to different suburbs, but the main practice space was in North Syracuse so that’s where we all had to meet anyways.

That was a great space.  Everyone practiced in that place- Earth Crisis, Freya, a few of my bands did.

Yeah.  We shared the room with Ed Gein, and some other rotating bands throughout the years, but it was private enough, and no houses around, so we never got bothered.  It was generally clean.

                     A common problem in the practice space

I feel like after this record the band also began taking control of more aspects of the band, such as artwork, and then recording aspects, and nowadays you all record your own music, build some of your gear, do all your own art, and release your own music.  Was the point to always be as DIY as possible?  Do you all prefer to work on your own?

I don’t know if we always had that as a goal in mind.  We just had a strong work ethic and a DIY attitude for most of our stuff.  But when we were just getting started and when you released the split and “Reproach” we didn’t know how to do any of that stuff.  We were just completely honored to have you do it and be a part of that Hex family, and have it all done for us, which was amazing.  But we never set out with the idea that eventually we’re going to do it all ourselves.  I think it just sort of came about that way because we never stopped making music, and wanting to release records.  But eventually when we got older and started doing other bands after Engineer, and when we opened our store, we were like, ‘we’re not going to tour anymore, so how are you going to sell records?’  How is a label going to pay for recording and pressing when the band isn’t going to go on tour to support it?  That doesn’t make any sense for a label, so that’s when I decided to try to do more of it ourselves.  And it wasn’t so much as trying to be in control of more of it ourselves, but it didn’t make much sense for a label to put it out when the band isn’t going to go on tour and support it.

It was fun to work with other people, like when Tim Leo (Minor Times) did the artwork for “Reproach”.  We gave him some direction, but for the most part we just let him do what he wanted because we had liked what he had done in the past.  It came out pretty cool. 

Even though, for the most part, you all still interact every day through Blood Sun Circle and running the store with mostly the same guys, what was your favorite part of doing Engineer?  What was your least favorite part?

My favorite part was just going on tour and recording records.  That was a highlight, being able to go into the studio and record those ideas and songs we had.  That was one of the most fun parts.

Touring was super fun, going out on the road and all.  But it was also some of the worst times.  Some of the shows were awful, or the promoter skipped out on paying the bands, and we would try to scrap together whatever money we didn’t have jus to make it to the next show and hope that one turned out OK.  But I think the worst part, and more towards the end of the band, we would get lumped in with more mosh bands of whatever town we were in, like the promoter would think, ‘OK, who are the heaviest bands in town?’ and it was always some metalcore mosh band where kids wanted to fight each other.  We like heavy music, but we don’t like punching other people in the face while they play music.  We got lumped in with so much of that that it got taxing.  We would be like, ‘why are we playing this show?’  And when it would happen over and over we would think, ‘why are we playing any of these shows?’

But we always picked our own routing and once we went on tour a few times, and established enough contacts, and found out what worked, we sort of stuck to that.  We stayed mostly in the Northeast region, and driving shorter distances, instead of going through the Midwest where it was hard to string enough shows together and spend a ton of money and gas just to get to the West Coast.  We would do shorter, two-week runs, with closer cities, and just did it all ourselves, and it would just go much better that way.

So that CD is long gone, but if you're so inclined, you can get the digital version of this unwieldy assault upon all that is quiet and decent by heading over to the bandcamp page and plopping down 3 clams.  One week only.  No posers.