Irene, as an immigration lawyer, are you able to represent people in areas of the law that are not what you specialize in? For instance, if you were to be approached by someone accused of embezzlement would you be able to represent them?
I: Ryan, are you asking me this for real life reasons?
No! Just follow where I’m going with this.
I: When you’re a lawyer, or allowed to practice law, you can give someone advice and go to court. But you can do that for whatever you want, or have to do. So I can do any kind of law, but the trick is to know it because each practice is so specialized and specific. Asking if I can do embezzlement law I’d have to study the whole field and practice it. So I could, but it would probably have to be my specialty.
J: Is there any time you would want to go to court for embezzlement?
I: I don’t know, maybe for fun! Every legal field has it’s exciting parts right? Maybe the embezzlers are multi-million dollar corporations who… I don’t know.
But, yeah, one part of doing the law is you specialize in doing what you’re really good at and what you’re learning about. So that’s why most lawyers tend to stick to one thing.
So your advice would probably be, ‘I could represent you, but you would be better off going to these people’. So that leads me to John- is there any time where you might find yourself requiring legal resources?
J: (laughs) This is really funny because I’m actually very thankful that Irene does immigration law because my wife is from Brazil and we got married and she had to apply for a green card, and all that stuff. When that came up I thought, ‘I know just who to call. We’re going to get this right the first time’.
I don’t have any legal expertise, but if anything the law should be avoided at all costs. I have a rule that you shouldn’t sweat unless it’s for sex, rock n’ roll, or running from the cops (laughs). So the law is not for me. But in this case we needed to do it. So my wife and I called Irene so she could help us fill out these forms and do things the right way, because there’s nothing scarier than a border- all the customs and shit. That’s like a whole other set of law because when you cross over, say, to Canada, they can just pull you over and reject you. You can have all the proper paperwork and they can still fuck with you. They can call you liar, it’s completely up to the border guard’s discretion. It’s crazy to me, the idea of borders, and ‘you shouldn’t be in this country’.
Did either of you find any obstacles when pursuing the green card process, or was it fairly easy?
J: The only part that was difficult was that we were going back and forth with visiting each other- Sao Paulo to Buffalo, back and forth. And one of the last times we did this before getting married is we landed in Canada, and drove into the US because it was cheaper to fly to Toronto and Buffalo is only two hours away. We got stopped at the border and they wouldn’t let her in. They were saying, ‘we think you’re lying to us, we think she already lives here’, which was very stressful. And she wasn’t living here at the time, she was just visiting. We were thinking, ‘we should get married and get this taken care of so it never happens again’. But yeah, they wouldn’t let her in and she got stuck in Canada for a couple weeks. Luckily, I knew someone in St. Catherines (Ontario, near the Buffalo border- ed.) and they let her stay with them for a couple weeks.
So Irene when you were assisting in that process did you find there to be a lot of hurdles, or was it fairly easy to help John with this?
I: Not really. Sometimes immigration is just paperwork- you fill out the forms, tons of forms, and you gather the evidence- which is whatever you need to prove whatever you’re trying to do, like I’m petitioning for my spouse and here’s the evidence that we’re married. The hardest part is always getting everything you need together, like ‘give me the last five years of your work history, all of your education, all the places you lived, all your family. It can take a really long time. I mean, I can’t remember what I ate yesterday, ya know?
But John and Carol were perfect clients. They were on top of it. I got to sit back and relax. On my end it was pretty easy.
Have you had situations that were extremely difficult? Were there situations where clients were given a really hard time?
I: Kind of all the time. We’re super lucky in Buffalo, and this is not the case everywhere. In Buffalo we have pretty fair immigration judges. Most of the cases I do are asylum cases. And they really consider everything fairly and equally. So we’re super lucky because when you make an argument you know it’s being heard. When you submit evidence you know they’re considering it. They’re actually weighing in instead of just saying ‘no’. So that part of it is really good locally.
But the bigger problem is really the whole immigration system. Over the last four years everything has been getting harder, and harder, and harder. There’s minutia that has been requested of clients that, unless you hire an attorney, you’re not going to know how to fill out that form. Some people requesting asylum will be rejected because they might have missed checking off a box, or not answering a question that isn’t applicable to them. Like, instead of answering ‘none’ or whatever it’s just not answered and out of 200 whatever questions they miss this one and their whole thing gets thrown out.
My boss said it perfectly- you don’t need a huge overhaul of the whole system to make it hard, you do these little things that make impossible for any person to do anything and that’s how you fuck them over.
It’s like a death by a thousand cuts sort of thing.
I: Perfect. I’m going to start using that one now (laughs). It’s not like this one thing, it’s just little by little, step by step, getting harder. I feel like I spend half my time at work figuring out how this law changed so my client can get through it. It’s extremely annoying and it’s embarrassing how the government has treated asylum seekers at the border.
Let’s jump back to not the real life situation you had to deal with, John, but if there were a fictional legal issue you found yourself in, what do you think it could be?
J: I’m pretty good at staying out of trouble these days. You get a little older and you get a little tired of getting yourself into trouble! I’ve been known in the past to have a couple soda pops. Luckily, I don’t have any history of driving drunk. But doing anything else, like riding a bicycle drunk, I’ve done. And you can get in trouble for that! So I’ve definitely ridden my bicycle home drunk because I’ve definitely crashed a couple times. No permanent injuries, but you get a couple soda pops in you and, ya know. But I’m surprisingly well-behaved. Irene, what would I get myself in trouble with?
I: John is a responsible young man now.
J: I get away with everything.
He did just incriminate himself over riding while drunk.
J: Yeah, they’re going to come get me now.
Would you feel comfortable representing him if he were caught riding while drunk?
I: (laughs) I shouldn’t represent people if know them. But yes, I would. Actually, John would do a fine job representing himself. He can talk his way out of it.
Is that the strategy?
I: John, didn’t you have some issue with going through jury duty?
J: I got called for jury duty. I went and got called in, and then got selected for the smaller group where they interview you. So I got in the room while they’re trying to pick the people who are going to be on the jury. So the gentleman on trial was up on a drug charge, selling drugs or whatever. So the attorneys each get to talk to the potential jurors to see who they want on the jury.
So they call the first person up, some suburban white lady, and she just says, ‘my uncle is a cop so I just believe that everything a cop says is true’. And the attorney tries to make an argument for the guy and she just says, ‘I just believe cops so I believe he’s guilty automatically’. And you can see the judge rolling his eyes, like she’s saying this just to get out of being on jury duty.
The next guy gets up and just says, ‘I’m racist, that guy is African-American, and I’m racist’ because he’s also just trying to get out of jury duty.
And then they call me up and I’m thinking, ‘this is stupid, I’m just going to tell the truth’ So they ask me if there’s any reason I can’t serve. They ask if I’ve ever been a part of the jury process. So I let them know that one time I was a witness at a trial. So I let them know that one time a friend was at a guy’s house and he freaked out because he took too many mushrooms so I was called to come pick him up and when I got there it turned out to be a drug dealer’s house and the police showed up, the guy got into a fight with cops. I never got into any trouble, but I witnessed it. So the lawyers asked why I was there and I explained it. They asked if that situation applied to what I was being asked to be a juror for and I told them that I thought all drugs should be legal and that I didn’t think that guy should be there at all because he’s probably got his own issues. So then the lawyer asked me, ‘so you’ve bought drugs before?’ And I said, ‘oh yeah, absolutely!’ And they asked me if I still buy drugs and I said, ‘oh, from him? No, not from him.’
At that point the whole courtroom started laughing and the judge had to hammer his gavel. And the prosecutor was like, ‘well, I’m going to get rid of this guy right off the bat’. So I got out of there basically by saying that I do drugs.
(laughs) That’s a good way to get out of jury duty.
J: Yeah, they kicked me right out.
Well, in terms of more legal drugs, you’re a bartender. Has that informed your music at all, seeing as it’s a social atmosphere, or you may be surrounded by music at a bar, or musicians?
I: John only works at fancy bars.
J: I would say the biggest way that has influenced my music is that over the years I’ve waited on a bunch of grumpy old people that are just miserable and hate all young people, they don’t like where the world is going, they don’t understand what’s happening now. They’re just curmudgeonly, old-attitude, and with a lot of hate. I also get a lot of people who do the, ‘so you’re in a band’ thing. I just try not to have that conversation. They’re like, ‘what kind of band are you in?’ and I will sort of agonizingly say, ‘puuunk?’ And they always reply with something like, ‘oh, so like Red hot Chili Peppers?’ And I always just agree, like, yeah, sure, just so I can get out of having a conversation with them.
But then you get people who say things like, ‘I always wanted to do this, but then I didn’t’, or ‘when I was younger I did this thing and if I stuck with it…’ Of course, they’re just miserable people who work their boring-ass day jobs forever. And now their only personality is going out to eat and get drunk and working a job they don’t like. And I believe that is quintessential to my whole idea of ‘don’t become that’. Whenever I find myself hearing a band and thinking ‘I don’t like this, I don’t get it’ I have to remind myself not to be old and jaded. Or if I ever get like, ‘I’m just going to be lazy today’ I think, ‘no, there is going to be plenty of time to be lazy when you’re old. Now is the time to do work, go on tour, and do art until my liver explodes, or I crash my bicycle into a bus.’
I: Is this where we segue very casually (laughs), into how this whole time I’ve been trying to express that my world revolves around watching Star Trek? I‘ve been trying to find an opening where I could ask, ‘what about Jean-Luc and his legal issues?’
(laughs) Picard has legal issues? Are you going to spearhead space law?
I: I’m saying that when we immigrate into space I truly hope that perhaps the profession I’m in right now will change a little bit.
J: Would you make it your job to formally define what is the Prime Directive?
I: Yeah! That’s pretty good.
I was going to segue into ‘does your profession inform your lyrics’ and upon my reading of Alpha Hopper lyrics, which I think can usually be open to interpretation, seem to be more about escapism than your job. Maybe I’m wrong.
I: No, that’s super accurate. I don’t really write much about my job because it just feels like other people’s situations are not my story to share. The stuff that people have to deal with is tough for them so I try not to get those stories to come out in my music. If I’m going to scream about something I want to scream about fun things. Maybe it’s not so much the case with our newest record, but I feel like a lot of my songs are sci-fi inspired. And I think a lot of people, myself included, love sci-fi and I can find fun things to express with that.
I think maybe you have already planted the seed for the next Alpha Hopper record with the Star Trek- Jean Luc-Picard space law thing.
I: We were brainstorming on ideas on how to promote our record and I thought, ‘what if we act out a scene from Star Trek, but instead of the people from Star Trek it’s us?’ Why don’t we green screen ourselves onto the set. I think Doug (drummer) will be Picard and I’ll play Deanna Troi because I can pull the hair off.
J: It can be “Alpha Hopper: Captured By the Borg”
You already got a title!
I: Our record can be packaged inside a cube. Think about it.
ALPHA HOPPER is playing Buffalo on 8/27/21 (the link was in the beginning of this article). Here's a flyer for it:
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